W33 ketch mizzen pedestal

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ianl
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W33 ketch mizzen pedestal

Post by ianl » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:46 pm

I own a 1978 Westerly 33 ketch and have a possible problem with the pedestal supporting the mizzen mast and steering gear. Around where the vertical part of the pedestal joins the transverse member (which attaches it to the cockpit sides and supports the mainsheet track), there is some folding and cracking of the outer surface. It appears that the pedestal is giving way to compression. There was some deformation in this area when I bought her but I took it to be cosmetic and it has taken 18 months to establish that it is in fact progressing. I imagine the solution would be internal reinforcement but I wonder whether anyone else has experienced this problem and / or knows of a solution.

Davidbullen
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Re: W33 ketch mizzen pedestal

Post by Davidbullen » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:55 pm

Dont have a solution to your problem but when I had my W33 surveyed three years ago, the surveyor noted that the top of the pedestal (upon which the mast sits) was a little compressed due to the downward pressure of the mast. He suggested that I strengthen the top with some extra fibreglass but instead, I made a stainless steel flat plate 4mm thick x 300 x 300 with a slot to go over the aluminium 'upstand' into which the mast slot fits. This also acts a a very good platform to stand upon when trying to put a boom cover on and is also useful to fix a timber shelf to make space for a plotter and hand held radio .

I do not appear to have 'your' problem but do you share mine as mentioned yesterday and posted on the wed site regarding stiff steering?

david@dbsurveyors.co.uk (yacht Keoki)

ianl
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Re: W33 ketch mizzen pedestal

Post by ianl » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:31 pm

Hi. Thanks for your reply. The top of my pedestal is also very slightly depressed however it is the folding on the side that causes me most concern.
I do not have the stiff steering problem you mention. Have you considered the cables between the rudder quadrant and the chain on the steering gear? Sheathed cables like this can become very stiff as old grease hardens inside them. I too have only had the boat for less than 3 years and have not yet checked whether there is a grease nipple on those cables. Probably should have checked. Another job for the weekend !

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Re: W33 ketch mizzen pedestal

Post by sakean99 » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:03 pm

I have come across a replacement pedestal moulding at a boat jumble in the past. I have no problem with mine so didn't buy it - I just wondered why it might be wanted. Now I can guess.
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Re: W33 ketch mizzen pedestal

Post by johnhodgins » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:35 pm

I have read with interest the threads on this issue. We aquired a W33 this past year and had all the standing rig replaced. At the end of this season I noticed a slight depression to the rear of the pedistal top immediately to the rear of the mizzen support plate giving an impression that this was "heeling" backwards. True to say we had encountered toward the end of the season some prolonged heavy weather beating upwind under mizzen and reefed genoa which lead me to think that the route of the problem was rig aft shrouds being overtight. I'm now not so sure since the steering is also quite tight and the wheel spindle as it enters the pedistal through a type of grp bush is also displaced in a downard direction. Whatever the cause strenghening to the top of the pedistal is part of the solution but how is the missen base plate removed . Has anyone done this ?

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Re: W33 ketch mizzen pedestal

Post by sakean99 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:33 pm

This may not be relevant, but I had a problem with my wheelpilot which turned out to be due to stiff steering. i cured it by applying generous amounts of WD40 lubricant to the bowden cables & the bearings on the wheel axle & rudder quadrant. With some energetic turning of the wheel from lock to lock my steering eased up considerably & the wheel pilot now works fine again. I simply hadn't noticed that the wheel was getting stiffer.

Just my experience with a stiff wheel & not related to pedestal damage.
Pentland "Sea Rush" out of Caernarfon, N Wales
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Re: W33 ketch mizzen pedestal

Post by dorado33 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:32 pm

This problem has been aired before but no solution.
I too have a W33 ketch with the same mizzen steering pedestal problem.
We currently have the masts off as we are having the standing rigging replaced whilst wintering in Greece so wanted to get this depressed steering pedestal sorted out at the same time.
Does anyone have any solution how to do this as our steering is now quite heavy and you can see the steering spigot is depressed off its centre axis by some 1/4" or so.

Steering is fine since mast removed....we just need a vood solution to strengthen the top.
We are thinking of a hexagon steel plate with four holes cut over the top ( like a biscuit tin lid fit) then the mast base on top of that? I am hoping that would then lift the steering centre point too.... we are unsure and local engineers are also scratching their heads.
Any WOA members out there solved this one?

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Re: W33 ketch mizzen pedestal

Post by capnbanks » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:48 am

Hi dorado, there does seem to be a solution. What I do is look through adverts or blogs of W33's to see what other people do. I recommend looking through https://ragdollsailing.com/
Have you disconnected the steering cables from the quadrant and tried to turn the rudder with the emergency tiller? Also is the wheel then light or still stiff? I found that the rudder bearings were the cause of the stiff steering for me (as with Ragdoll's steering). Your steering axle may be off centre too which will need rectifying. I understand the steering was fine with the mast down but it's worth double checking all components.

I have seen that many people rebuild the pedestal and then add a thick stainless plate to the top. This seems to be enough to stop the depression.

If the engineers are scratching heads I would perhaps ask other engineers (ideally ones that W33 owners recommend) or a surveyor for advice?

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Re: W33 ketch mizzen pedestal

Post by dorado33 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:00 pm

Hi Capnbanks,

Thanks ever so much for the reply and advice. I have shot an email to my original surveyor in the hope that he will have a solution. Ironically, we looked at Ragdoll online whilst searching for our W33. I will work through their interesting blog and see what's what there. Will try the cable disconnection too but as I say the steering is fine with the Mizzen currently removed. I need to get it sorted as my new rigging arrived back from Athens today.
My thanks again !

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Re: W33 ketch mizzen pedestal

Post by dorado33 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:27 pm

Still no response from my original surveyor on advice about my pedestal problem...even though he said he would get back to me and I have sent a couple of polite reminders.... oh well back to the drawing board here in Kalamata with the engineer here.
Does any Westerly 33 Ketch (or Pentland) owner out there know how one removes the mizzen base plate from the pedestal.... looks like a real tough job with the usual minimal access.
I am assuming loosen steering cables at quadrant end first but how do you get at the 4 nuts under the pedestal screws???
Help!

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Re: W33 ketch mizzen pedestal

Post by Jolly Roger » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:04 pm

You should be aware the nuts holding the pedestal in place are most likely to have been covered with fiberglass by Westerly. This makes the job even more difficult. The position should be able to be felt as bulges in the fiberglass in the correct position. The easiest way to remove the fiberglass is with a small high speed drill like a Dremel. Under the nut will also be a penny washer. If you are refitting the same pedestal, then only remove the covering for the nut. If you are fitting larger bolts or have slightly different footprint for the bolts, then remove the penny washers as well.
Roger
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dorado33
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Re: W33 ketch mizzen pedestal

Post by dorado33 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:31 pm

Hi Roger....
It is not the nuts holding the pedestal in place but the ones inside and up underneath the pedestal top... they are locking nuts and can be seen with a torch/mirror when I look up through the removed rear hatch on the pedestal but getting at the nuts is a job for houdini.... ridiculous design....

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Re: W33 ketch mizzen pedestal

Post by dj7613 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:03 pm

My Discus pedestal is a Whitlock. The plate on the top of the pedestal was held on by 4 bolts which located into tapped bosses in the top rim of the pedestal. The mast base is bolted down to the top plate and comes off with the plate. I have drgs of the arrangement which I will post on the Wiki on Monday. I am in the process of replacing my steering cables and conduit because my steering was stiff. However I think it was stiff because the table was too tight. Cable nuts should apparently only be finger tight.

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Re: W33 ketch mizzen pedestal

Post by dj7613 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:53 pm


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